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Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 7 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1452<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: OT Flamebait: realism of war movies<BR>
Have A Go Heroes<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: OT Flamebait: realism of war movies<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
One day, one day....<BR>
Re: "Aslan" name debate again<BR>
Re: No go on Nova<BR>
Re: Yet Another Keith Supplements Update...<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: Canon Fodder (or, Renegades of Yaskoydray)<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
South Park (was: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited)<BR>
Re: Re : One of our worlds is missing!<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
OT: Space Above and Beyond<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: Space Above and Beyond<BR>
Re: Yet Another Keith Supplements Update...<BR>
Re: Have A Go Heroes<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 03:15:41<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
At 10:22 PM 12/6/1999 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I don't mean to be rude, but did you consider the fact that it was *meant*<BR>
>to be a black comedy in the first place? I mean, this was not a surprising<BR>
>concept. Paul Verhoeven has built a career around extremely violent,<BR>
>action-packed science-fiction black comedies. I'm utterly confused by anyone<BR>
>who expected this movie to be serious or in any way accurate.<BR>
<BR>
Many of us hoped that a movie called "Robert Heinlein's Starship Troopers"<BR>
would have more resemblance to the book than a few names and a sketched out<BR>
plot.  Ginny Heinlein tried to have The Master's name removed after seeing<BR>
a pre-release print.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 03:21:09<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT Flamebait: realism of war movies<BR>
<BR>
At 08:34 PM 12/6/1999 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Instead of eight guys fighting, you would have had<BR>
>maybe two of them firing, another couple "Oh, I'm just<BR>
>loading magazines for him," another couple pointing<BR>
>out targets, "quick, shoot him, Joe!", one patching up<BR>
>wounds, and another one running messages. But in this<BR>
>movie, they were all killers, except for the wimpy<BR>
>translator, who only shot an unarmed man, and his not<BR>
>killing was depicted as cowardice.<BR>
<BR>
Those eight guys were Rangers, American Commandos.  They were they best<BR>
that we had to offer, and in a situation like they found themselves in,<BR>
everybody would shoot.  They were also veterans already.. obviously the<BR>
sergeant had been in the war since '42!<BR>
<BR>
In that incredible first 20 minutes, you see that most of the troops are<BR>
cowering on the beach trying very hard to Be Somewhere Else.  That's what<BR>
leadership is about.  The motto of the US Infantry is "Follow Me!", and<BR>
it's also the order you give when everything else has gone to shit.  Go get<BR>
them.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
Yfirmaur, Konunglegur Gramm Floti<BR>
Srstakur Vitsmunir jnusta<BR>
Sameina Her: Rm, Sver Verld Sambandsmyndun<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:27:17 +0000<BR>
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>
Subject: Have A Go Heroes<BR>
<BR>
An Encounter<BR>
by Timothy Collinson<BR>
<BR>
The PCs are just entering town in slow moving evening rush hour traffic<BR>
when they witness a being assault another, hitting him full in the face and<BR>
leaving him stretched out on the side of the road having hit his head on<BR>
the ground.<BR>
<BR>
1. The PCs drive on and do nothing.  Next day the local news carries<BR>
reports of the death of a being killed by an unknown assailant who attacked<BR>
him on the street in the rush hour.<BR>
<BR>
2. The PCs drive on but another witness saw them see the events and got<BR>
their vehicle registration.  *Not* helping in such circumstances can carry<BR>
hefty penalties on this world.<BR>
<BR>
3. The PCs stop to lend assistance but the assailant has already made<BR>
himself scarce and others are attending to the injured being.  Still, the<BR>
thought was there.<BR>
<BR>
4. The PCs stop to lend assistance, any with medical skill can attend to<BR>
the stricken being, others can endeavour to apprehend the assailant and/or<BR>
his two friends.  After 'collaring' the one who threw the punch, he will<BR>
violently make a run for it breaking the little finger of whoever has a<BR>
hold of him.  (This won't be realized for an hour or so and will take four<BR>
weeks in a stack splint [1] to heal).<BR>
<BR>
5a. The PCs stop to lend assistance and are able to apprehend the assailant<BR>
after an exciting chase on foot.  The local law enforcers are glad of the<BR>
assistance.  The broken finger of (4) can be inflicted at the discretion of<BR>
the referee.<BR>
<BR>
5b. The PCs stop to lend assistance and report what they've seen to the<BR>
local law enforcers.  However, what they hadn't seen prior to the events<BR>
above was that the assailant had himself been attacked extremely violently<BR>
and his punch was his one act of self defence.<BR>
<BR>
6. The PCs stop to lend assistance and are set on by *all* those at the<BR>
scene, including the being picking himself off the roadside, as they object<BR>
to outsiders interfering with a 'private' matter.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
OK, so this isn't the usual patron encounter but might be fun to add a bit<BR>
of color or to raise ethical issues in your role playing.  The reason it is<BR>
a little 'odd' and doesn't give the referee the usual "here's all the<BR>
facts" is because, contrary to what the Readers' Digest may say, life isn't<BR>
like that and this incident was inspired by real life.  In case anyone<BR>
cares my gamelife referee evidently rolled a '4'.<BR>
<BR>
tc<BR>
I wouldn't recommend trying this at home<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
[1]  I saw the name of the splint when at the fracture clinic but failed to<BR>
make a note of it.  A quick search on the web turned up:<BR>
http://supports4u.com/finger.htm which looks like the thing, but no medical<BR>
knowledge should be presumed!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 11:28:04 +0000<BR>
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>The bad Civil War era military tactics were bloody horrible.  I also lost <BR>
>it when the huge fleet transport vessel in the middle of open space <BR>
>couldn't spot a monstrously huge (i.e. much larger than the giant space <BR>
>ship) rock coming at them until they were almost run over by the damn thing.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps the rock had just dropped out of warp or something.<BR>
<BR>
However, don't forget the<BR>
<BR>
	"let's wait till the last moment and scrape the communications array off"<BR>
<BR>
bit.<BR>
<BR>
I voted with the the<BR>
<BR>
	"Main engines NOW!...That's like NOW!...No, not in ten seconds, NOW!"<BR>
<BR>
party.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, heading away from the rock instead of towards it would have<BR>
helped too!<BR>
<BR>
(Like so much it was a shame because being forced to wait as the ship slowly<BR>
 changed facing should have helped with the dramatic tension...although you<BR>
 wouldn't get that comic bit where the captain declared how wonderful her<BR>
pilots<BR>
 were.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Phil Kitching<BR>
- --<BR>
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/<BR>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.<BR>
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 01:38:50 +1300<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: OT Flamebait: realism of war movies<BR>
<BR>
Date sent:      	Mon, 6 Dec 1999 20:34:48 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From:           	Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
<BR>
> Since people always ask for references, I refer those<BR>
> interested to Col David Grossman's excellent work, "On<BR>
> Killing", where he discusses exactly this military<BR>
> problem, and how the (US) military has tried to<BR>
> overcome it.<BR>
<BR>
With all due respect to Col. Grossman's work, it based on<BR>
flawed research. Grossman's work is based mainly on the<BR>
performance of the US army in the 2nd WW and Korea. And<BR>
(again) with all respect for the many US veterans on the list,<BR>
that is a case study in how to take 1st class manpower with<BR>
1st class equipment and train them to a fever pitch of<BR>
mediocrity. There was something terribly wrong with the US<BR>
infantry at the time, but it had absoletely nothing to do with<BR>
the actual men. It was simple incompetant handling of an<BR>
excellent resource by the US military. The basic underlying<BR>
problem (ie that soldiers are people not some mindless<BR>
manpower pool) was not addressed by the US military until<BR>
after Vietnam, by which stage the famous (and inaccurate)<BR>
1 in 10 will fire rule had entered their collective conciousness.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Andrew etc<BR>
Homepage http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/<BR>
Traveller http://www.downport.com/amv/<BR>
 "What do you expect from a species who's females are<BR>
 always in heat" Ko of the Ilui clan on Humans and honour<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 22:52:45 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
> From: Kenji Schwarz <BR>
> ObTrav:  I desperately want to run a Trav campaign based on South Park.<BR>
> Suggestions welcomed.<BR>
<BR>
Process South Park through Futurama.  Then release the four-a**ed<BR>
mutants...<BR>
<BR>
Starship Turkeys!<BR>
<BR>
The turkeys will, of course, use near-C rocks, aka Kenny-killers.<BR>
<BR>
Mr Anki was created by Vilani shulgilis to educate children on the<BR>
importance of having lots of fibre in their diets.  Given the usual sources<BR>
of dietary fibre in the Vilani diet, this was rather necessary.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, and of course, South Park is in the Solomani Confederation.  I blame<BR>
the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 21:06:38 +0800<BR>
From: "Mick Bailey" <mickb@iinet.net.au><BR>
Subject: One day, one day....<BR>
<BR>
>Chortle, chuckle.  No, he said Footy season.  Anyone playing Freo is in the<BR>
>midst of  Duck Season.<BR>
<BR>
It'd be funnier if it weren't true (sob).....but at least we did better than<BR>
that money-sink of a club, Collingwood!!!!<BR>
To make things worse, good old Chelsea Fc are in a spot of bother...I can<BR>
pick 'em...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  er.....I dunno, maybe I'll knock up a short piece about Aussie<BR>
Rules as a spectator sport ion the Solomani Confederation...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Mick Bailey<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 18:15:41 -0500<BR>
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "Aslan" name debate again<BR>
<BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> You're wrong. *Trademarks* can be lost thru non-enforcement. But not<BR>
> copyrights. Also, if the copyrights were properly registered *before*<BR>
> the violation, the violator can be charges *punitive* damages, which<BR>
> start at somethging like $100 per copy.<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm... this is a bit embarrassing. Now that you mention it, I may well<BR>
have blurred trademarks and copyrights in my memory.<BR>
<BR>
> Among other things, if you happen to make enough copies that the *list*<BR>
> price of all of them exceeds $1000, you are guilty of a *felony*.<BR>
> Complete with large fine and prison term. That's due to a law passed a<BR>
> few years back and aimed at folks pirating software. But as far as I<BR>
> know it applies equally well to printed materials.<BR>
<BR>
Passed where? I'm sure that violating copyright is illegal here too,<BR>
but I doubt that the penalties are the same in Canada as they are in<BR>
the US.<BR>
<BR>
> So if you make too many copies, and Roger found out, you could wind up<BR>
> facing *criminal* charges.<BR>
<BR>
Well, yes, but part of my original premise is that Roger is too<BR>
poor and/or incompetent to adequately police the use of the work<BR>
he owns. And again, I'm in Canada, which is by no means makes<BR>
me immune to prosecution, but it presents a logistical barrier<BR>
to alerting the authorities to my (not yet committed) heinous crimes.<BR>
<BR>
> Besides, you are overlooking an inmportant point. Like it or not, he<BR>
> *does* own the copyright. So before doing anything too drastic, stop<BR>
> and consider how you'd feel if someone did that to *your* material.<BR>
<BR>
Well, I'm not totally ignorant of this. I work in the software<BR>
industry and I'm quite familiar with copyright, IP rights and<BR>
the reality that the line between legal and illegal often gets <BR>
blurred. Frankly, I am much more sympathetic to the fact that<BR>
Roger may not actually own some of the work he thinks he owns<BR>
(re: Rob Prior's message) than to the fact that he has legal<BR>
right to the materials.<BR>
<BR>
I have little practical interest in any mass photocopying or any kind<BR>
of reproduction of DGP materials, for profit or not. But it<BR>
does bother me that people seem to treat Roger's (apparent)<BR>
ownership of DGP materials as sacred. I don't think there's<BR>
any reasonable objection to using 'Fteirle' in a GURPS Traveller<BR>
pub (which has apparently already happened).<BR>
<BR>
For example, is it really a copyright violation if the authors<BR>
of G:T Starships lift the section from SoM about the lanthanum<BR>
grid patterns being different for all the different races?<BR>
Lifting the passage verbatim is plagiarism, sure, but the <BR>
idea? And using the same names for things - is that _illegal_?<BR>
<BR>
My basic point is that I think people should feel free to <BR>
use DGP materials as "canon source" that same way they use<BR>
GDW materials. I have no idea why people seem to think that<BR>
using ideas from DGP-published sources is somehow verboten<BR>
compared to non-DGP stuff. Even if it is illegal by the letter<BR>
of the law (which I'm not fully convinced it is), I seriously<BR>
doubt anyone will get a subpoena and a court date for doing it.<BR>
<BR>
Ethan<BR>
- --<BR>
Ethan Henry                                        egh@klg.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 14:41:21 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: No go on Nova<BR>
<BR>
Eris Reddoch wrote:<BR>
> Hee, hee, actually the best example I can think of is Win CE,<BR>
> Microsoft's Windows for the palm top market.  Nothing wrong with Win<BR>
> Ce as a name...right?   Not unless it makes you wince. <g><BR>
<BR>
Microsoft Works   ;-)    (yes, I know, I stole the joke)<BR>
<BR>
> Ob Traveller...does anyone have any good Traveller ancronyms with<BR>
> double meanings?<BR>
<BR>
The best I can think of is:<BR>
<BR>
jump ship = (1) A ship with a jumpdrive<BR>
            (2) Leaving the ship in a hurry<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 14:54:14 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Yet Another Keith Supplements Update...<BR>
<BR>
"Swordy (Colin Michael)" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: J. Paul Sanders <timmon@primenet.com><BR>
> > See you all in the next millennium,<BR>
> <BR>
> You're going away for thirteen months?<BR>
<BR>
LOL!<BR>
<BR>
I have an even worse case of timekeeping error for you. Currently, a<BR>
Swedish artist has a hit called "Millenium 2" (same name in both Swedish<BR>
and English)...<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:40:21 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
I loved that show!  What were some of the shortcomings?  <BR>
<BR>
Note, not trying to start a flamewar, i'm admittedly ignorant.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 3:13 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>They just went through showin Space Above and Beyond here and for all<BR>
>its shortcoming, I like the fact that these guys/girls go down to<BR>
>planets, armed with real guns :-)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 07:40:23 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
>>When I first saw it my friends (not ex-military) had to physically shut <BR>
>>me up in the theatre. They were just _so_ incompentent. Next time I saw <BR>
>>it I looked upon it as a comedy - much better that way.<BR>
><BR>
>This is exactly the problem I have (or one of the problems) with Star Trek,<BR>
>who the hell sends down their main officers to an unsecure planet to <BR>
>investigate some unknown phenomena, armed only with a hand phaser.<BR>
<BR>
"Only" a hand phaser? This is a weapon that has a "disintegrate" setting.<BR>
(They don't call it that, but that's effectively what it is.) Sounds rather<BR>
effective to me.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, sending down the command staff, in reality, is a dumb way to<BR>
operate, but since the command staff are the central characters in the<BR>
show, the only alternatives would be to send characters no one knows and<BR>
cares about to the planet, or watch the command staff on the bridge during<BR>
an away mission... At least TNG came up with the concept of the "away team".<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:20:38 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Canon Fodder (or, Renegades of Yaskoydray)<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 6 Dec 1999, Robert Eaglestone wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Ah!  A new debate!  Did Grandfather wipe out ALL his kids,<BR>
> and if not, where are they?<BR>
> <BR>
> Our heroes, Maldaar and Skelli, Imperial Bureau of Investigation,<BR>
> have stumbled upon an organ-smuggling cartel whose operations<BR>
<BR>
Snipped into my pile of Paranoid Traveller Anecdotes (PTA).  What fun!<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:21:39 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 6 Dec 1999, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 04:13 PM 12/6/1999 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >ObTrav:  I desperately want to run a Trav campaign based on South Park.<BR>
> >Suggestions welcomed.<BR>
> <BR>
> OhmyGod, they killed Strephon!  You BASTARDS!<BR>
<BR>
So which of the Archdukes is Cartman?<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:44:46 -0000 <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: South Park (was: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited)<BR>
<BR>
Kenji wrote:<BR>
> On Mon, 6 Dec 1999, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
> > At 04:13 PM 12/6/1999 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> > > ObTrav:  I desperately want to run a Trav campaign based on<BR>
> > > South Park.  Suggestions welcomed.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > OhmyGod, they killed Strephon!  You BASTARDS!<BR>
><BR>
> So which of the Archdukes is Cartman?<BR>
<BR>
An Archduke isn't Cartman.  Lucan is!<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
Young Lucan: "Iolanthe, get in the kitchen and make me some pie!"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:58:19 -0500<BR>
From: "Swordy (Colin Michael)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re : One of our worlds is missing!<BR>
<BR>
In Challenge No. 26, in the computer article by some guy named Marc W.<BR>
Miller, there is a table that shows all of the government type in use at<BR>
that time (late 1986).  "M" is "Aslan: Vassal Clan Control".<BR>
<BR>
- -Crusty<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Antony Farrell <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
> The original government type M goes back to CT and was meant to refer to<BR>
> government by the Military, usually following a coup, ie Uganda under Idi<BR>
> Amin etc.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:27:08 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
I'm not military at all and have never been in the military.  But that scene<BR>
stood out to me as insane.  Or maybe the guy didn't like that radioman and<BR>
thought it would be a good way to get rid of him?  Even I can think up<BR>
better tactics than that.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 1:53 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> > With a Sergeant who will see movement on a ridge and not alert his<BR>
> > formation!!  Aiigghh!!<BR>
><BR>
> Ah yes, that was my favorite.<BR>
><BR>
> He looks up, seeing movement, apparently thinks nothing of it, and then<BR>
> sends the radioman up to get better reception.<BR>
><BR>
> "Son, go up onto that ridge to get a better signal."<BR>
><BR>
> Many insane giggles were heard in our little theater at that.<BR>
><BR>
> Cripes, I felt violated after seeing that movie -- even moreso than<BR>
> _Highlander 2_ or <shudder> _Sky Bandits_.<BR>
><BR>
> Ciao,<BR>
><BR>
> Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
> yikes@evansville.net<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 17:24:39 +0100 (MET)<BR>
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no><BR>
Subject: OT: Space Above and Beyond<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Eric Henry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I loved that show!  What were some of the shortcomings?  <BR>
<BR>
Well, her goes<BR>
<BR>
	1. Fighters banking in space and also doing quite <BR>
           reasonable rolls. Fightercombat is a mix between<BR>
           atmosphere rules and space rules.<BR>
	2. I still haven't figured out if everything happens<BR>
           in one star system or several and how they travel <BR>
           between the systems. <BR>
	3. Some of the astrphysics stuff is wrong. Dense<BR>
           asteroid belts for example. Allthough the <BR>
           comet episode was quite good.<BR>
	4. Some tactics stuff. Admittedly I have never been <BR>
           in the army, but some of the ground tactics stuff<BR>
           seems rather stupid. <BR>
<BR>
There was popably more, but those didn't question my suspended<BR>
disbelief :-)<BR>
<BR>
>Note, not trying to start a flamewar, i'm admittedly ignorant.<BR>
<BR>
But hell, I really liked that show. It was to me very Traveller like<BR>
(I got into Traveller with TNE and the Star Vikings) to me.<BR>
Also a good show about people. <BR>
<BR>
Tommy Grav<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/  <BR>
Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No  <BR>
IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++ <BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 17:33:32 +0100 (MET)<BR>
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, cos 90 wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>>When I first saw it my friends (not ex-military) had to physically shut <BR>
>>>me up in the theatre. They were just _so_ incompentent. Next time I saw <BR>
>>>it I looked upon it as a comedy - much better that way.<BR>
>><BR>
>>This is exactly the problem I have (or one of the problems) with Star Trek,<BR>
>>who the hell sends down their main officers to an unsecure planet to <BR>
>>investigate some unknown phenomena, armed only with a hand phaser.<BR>
><BR>
>"Only" a hand phaser? This is a weapon that has a "disintegrate" setting.<BR>
>(They don't call it that, but that's effectively what it is.) Sounds rather<BR>
>effective to me.<BR>
><BR>
>Of course, sending down the command staff, in reality, is a dumb way to<BR>
>operate, but since the command staff are the central characters in the<BR>
>show, the only alternatives would be to send characters no one knows and<BR>
>cares about to the planet, or watch the command staff on the bridge during<BR>
>an away mission... At least TNG came up with the concept of the "away team".<BR>
<BR>
The why not incorperate a few real military officers as main characters?<BR>
Have Worf and an leuitenant take a troop of soldiers on the 'away teams'.<BR>
I don't disagree with the hand phaser being a capable weapon, but for <BR>
jeavens sake, give the away team some armor, extra equipment, first aid<BR>
kits. Almost every episode they go down to a planet they get in deep<BR>
trouble, with only a hand phaser and hand held computer as their <BR>
equipment, come on! Someday you would think that they would learned (if they<BR>
lived long enough :-) and were a little bit more carefule.<BR>
<BR>
I also think that introducing some military characters would give interesting<BR>
topics to write about. Imagine a military educated infantry officer in <BR>
heated discussion with Capt. Picard on the bridge over some officers being<BR>
held prisoner on the planet below. It would make the show more realistic<BR>
and add some spunk to it IMHO.  <BR>
<BR>
>     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
<BR>
Tommy Grav<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/  <BR>
Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No  <BR>
IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++ <BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:58:02 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: Space Above and Beyond<BR>
<BR>
#2.   I know this one!<BR>
<BR>
The 58th squadron travels to many different systems.  The pilot movie<BR>
specifically stated the use of wormholes to get from one system to another.<BR>
However, this reference was made only once and to my knowledge doesn't<BR>
appear in any other episodes.  There did not appear to be any discussions of<BR>
FTL drives so they may or may not exist.  OTOH, such  a discussion didn't<BR>
seem necessary to the stories told.  They got around to other planets and<BR>
that was that.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 10:45 AM<BR>
Subject: OT: Space Above and Beyond<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Eric Henry wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>I loved that show!  What were some of the shortcomings?<BR>
><BR>
>Well, her goes<BR>
><BR>
> 1. Fighters banking in space and also doing quite<BR>
>           reasonable rolls. Fightercombat is a mix between<BR>
>           atmosphere rules and space rules.<BR>
> 2. I still haven't figured out if everything happens<BR>
>           in one star system or several and how they travel<BR>
>           between the systems.<BR>
> 3. Some of the astrphysics stuff is wrong. Dense<BR>
>           asteroid belts for example. Allthough the<BR>
>           comet episode was quite good.<BR>
> 4. Some tactics stuff. Admittedly I have never been<BR>
>           in the army, but some of the ground tactics stuff<BR>
>           seems rather stupid.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 08:58:11 PST<BR>
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Yet Another Keith Supplements Update...<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Swordy (Colin Michael)" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
>From: J. Paul Sanders <timmon@primenet.com><BR>
> > See you all in the next millennium,<BR>
><BR>
>You're going away for thirteen months?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Let's not start that thread here.<BR>
<BR>
(But it _is_ thirteen months ...)<BR>
<BR>
A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:02:02 +0000<BR>
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <carlos.alos-ferrer@univie.ac.at><BR>
Subject: Re: Have A Go Heroes<BR>
<BR>
> OK, so this isn't the usual patron encounter but might be fun to add<BR>
> a bit of color or to raise ethical issues in your role playing.  The<BR>
> reason it is a little 'odd' and doesn't give the referee the usual<BR>
> "here's all the facts" is because, contrary to what the Readers'<BR>
> Digest may say, life isn't like that and this incident was inspired<BR>
> by real life. <BR>
<BR>
Great idea. My take at it (also inspired by real life...) will not <BR>
raise any ethical issue, but will certainly exasperate any <BR>
action-addict PC...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Your Passport, Please!<BR>
<BR>
by Carlos Alos-Ferrer<BR>
<BR>
The PCs have just landed without problems in an Imperial world, well <BR>
below Average Stellar technology. The only oddity of this world is <BR>
that they have their own native language with its own set of <BR>
characters. Part of the population can't speak Galanglic, and still <BR>
another part can speak but not read it (think of people who speak <BR>
japanese but understand no kanji). After contacting a patron by <BR>
phone or similar, they agree that an initial pre-payment <BR>
will be delivered to them by local post so that it gets registered.<BR>
<BR>
They receive the communication that the money is waiting for them to <BR>
pick it at a local office and get there. Quite naturally, the clerk - <BR>
who speaks galanglic with difficulty - asks them to identify <BR>
themselves. When the PCs wave their Imperial ID cards, the clerk <BR>
refuses to acknowledge them. "I can't read that," he says, "and if <BR>
you are foreigners you must present your Planetary Pass to pick this <BR>
up."<BR>
<BR>
When the PCs ask what the Planetary Pass is. The clerk explains that <BR>
it is the document that authorizes you to travel inside the world if <BR>
you are a foreigner. Of course Imperial citizens do not *need* to <BR>
have it (only non-Imperial ones), but still, without Planetary Pass, <BR>
you can not pick this up.<BR>
<BR>
1. The PCs just give up and contact the patron. The patron will <BR>
reconsider the assignment, since his "trusted" team gave up in the <BR>
face of such a minor difficulty. Besides, the patron cannot reclaim <BR>
the money. It will go back to him only after two months.<BR>
<BR>
2. The PCs try to argue that since they do not need to have a <BR>
Planetary Pass, it is ridiculous to have a regulation forcing them to <BR>
use it. The clerk answers that they cannot expect that he recognizes <BR>
an ID card he cannot understand.<BR>
<BR>
3. The PCs try to get to the clerk's boss. He simply confirms the <BR>
clerk's view and explains that he cannot change the regulations.<BR>
<BR>
4. The PCs ask how can they get a Planetary Pass. They are directed <BR>
to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, where a clerk calmly explains <BR>
them, as if they were ignorant children, that they do not need one <BR>
since they are imperial citizens. Still, one can be done, but it will <BR>
take several months as a message to perform routine checks on the <BR>
PCs identity is sent to the subsector capital.<BR>
<BR>
5. The PCs try to get a Certified Translator to make an authorized <BR>
translation of their IDs, and they find it is expensive, but finally <BR>
the clerk accepts it.<BR>
<BR>
6. The PCs discover that, astoundingly, they can authorize a local to <BR>
pick the money up in their name by simply signing the Communication <BR>
and writing the local's name. Then all they have to do is to find a <BR>
cooperative local.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1452<BR>
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